Save The Wolves (STW)


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pikletman

4:58pm Feb 5 2011

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Posts: 69

Hi, can I join

I feel bad for those poor wolves.

so I want to help stop what people are doing.

STW PEOPLE




Wolves killed by humans > Humans killed by wolves. STOP IT. Put this in you signature if you love wolves. This can make a difference. ---- Vietnamese monkeys are dying,they've done nothing to us why should we do something to them.(STVM)
3mm4

11:34pm Feb 5 2011

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Posts: 4,043

If they want to keep the elk alive, then why don't they stop hunting them. Wolves need to hunt for food. They should just leave the hunting to the wolves. Then there would be elk still alive, and there would be wolves still alive. Simple.




Mechromancer

8:31pm Feb 8 2011

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Why do people need to hunt? I like shooting targets, but really, animals?



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ashdog554

12:45am Feb 10 2011

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You know what? One day these stupid hunters will die. And then some other stupid hunters will take their place. Such is the principle of the thing. But why for sport? So they can take out all their UTTER FAILURE on other living beings.  Out of all the stupid things these...  people do, this must be one of the stupidest. D<  Why are they thrilled that their killing wolves...? Who knows. And although it is impossible to save all the wolves, well, at least the goal itself won't die. Perhaps some hunter, somewhere, will get the picture and quit hunting wolves. Or, at least, not kill as many. That itself would save a few lives.

(I don't know. Felt like rambling about the dang thing, okay?! O.O) 




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3mm4

11:46pm Feb 10 2011

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*agrees with ashdog* 8D



WhiteTigress

2:47am Feb 11 2011 (last edited on 6:47am Feb 13 2011)

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(Hello, before I say what I'm going to say, I'd like to firmly establish that I like wolves. They're very pretty, they're smart, and I like how they sound when they howl.)

(The following post is made up of facts and hours of research done by me.  I’ve written this simply because some views you have are based on misconceptions.  I don’t wish to offend anyone, these are just my opinions based on fact)

 

Yes, in most cases wolves attack and kill livestock because the wildlife is depleted, but that shouldn’t be an excuse to let them stay.  Farmers grow livestock to make a living, it’s not in any way some sort of side job where if some cattle or sheep get killed then it doesn’t make any difference.  No, if one cow gets killed and eaten by a wolf/wolf pack, they will, most likely, come back for more because, well, it’s an easy meal.  Some wolves even get ‘addicted’ to livestock.  And if a wolf gets addicted, what’ll happen?  It will keep coming back.  Some people would say, you know, “Just relocate it, then.”, but what if it finds livestock there?  It’ll most likely kill it.  The best thing for the farmer to do is kill it, and if the wolf’s pack is addicted too, kill them.

My dad raises cows(he’s not a cattle farmer, he raises them for meat for our family and occasionally he sells a few), and if wolves lived around here(southwest Washington) the cows would probably be killed.  If wolves killed our cows, my dad would shoot the wolves.

 In 1912 there was a wolf called "Three Toes of Harding County" in South Dakota that killed $50,000 worth of livestock until he was caught on July 23rd, 1925.  Apparently he killed 66 sheep in two nights shortly before he was caught.

And also, if a wolf pack is troubled because we’re taking away their land, they’d surely move.

 

And honestly, wolves aren’t poor, defenseless creatures(nor are humans).  They’ve got sharp claws on their feet.  They’ve got sharp teeth and their jaws are so strong they can break bones.  Wolves are so strong that they can turn over frozen moose carcas-ses.  And they live in packs.  If wolves could understand human speech (and process it like humans), I’m sure they’d be extremely offended at you saying they’re weak and defenseless.  Sure, compared to humans, when we have guns or different means of protecting ourselves, wolves aren’t as strong or smart as us, but if we ventured out into a wolf inhabited forest without defenses, we’d be slaughtered.

I think the only way they’d be truly defenseless is if we de-clawed them, removed their teeth, and tied them with strong ropes to the ground.

 

The 'Wolves killed by humans > Humans killed by wolves' thing is really just... not thought out.  Imagine if you had a family member you were really close to(and I *censored*ume you do) and they got attacked and killed by a wolf, surely you would do something about it.  If my sister was ever killed by a wolf, I would want the wolf destroyed by any means possible.

 

If you really ever plan on owning a wolf or wolf-hybrid, there are things I need to point out.  First, taking wolves out of the wild is what you’re working against, isn’t it?  But you want to buy one and take it into your home.  As far as I can see, you just want one because they’re pretty.

Anyway, having a wolf would mean that you would absolutely have to be the master of your animal, if you let it challenge you and you backed down, it would become extremely hard to control, even dangerous.

If you got a wolf, you would have to train it.  That might not sound like much, but take this into account: dogs have been with humans for anywhere from 15,000 – 100,000 years, wolves haven‘t.  They don’t have the same drive to please their masters as dogs do, so they don’t have that motivation.  Training is hard and absolutely necessary.  If you didn’t train it, it would just be a wild animal.

If you had a wolf, you’d need another dog(or person) for it to be with while you’re not at home.  It would be cruel to take a pack animal and leave it alone.

If you got a wolf, you’d need to make sure it was socialized before it turned 19 days old, because older then that and they don‘t respond to it.

Wolves are very different than dogs.  When wolves are adults, they’ve been known to act unpredictably, and sometimes they’ll be aggressive toward small animals and children.  They should never be left alone with kids because, unlike dogs, they lack any alteration of their predatory behaviors.  These behaviors are in their genes and can never be taken away by training or socialization.  At best, they can only be suppressed.

In the wild, when wolves grow up, they usually leave their pack, that isn’t possible in captivity, and conflict avoidance behavior is not an option.  In these situations, it’s not unusual for them to attack their owners or fellow pets.

Wolves as pets are generally shy and avoid eye contact with anyone other then their owner, and don’t usually take commands by any other humans.  Even seemingly friendly wolves need to be treated with caution, as they see and treat humans as wolves, and will bite or attack in the same situations as they would with other wolves.

If you got a wolf, you’d need to take into account that wolves are used to living outside and in dens.  They like to dig, run, and howl.  They need a lot more exercise than dogs, and typically don’t do well in urban areas.  You would need a lot of space with a fence that goes all around it.  The fence would need to go beneath the ground so the wolf couldn’t dig it up and get out.  You’d need to think about your neighbors, too, especially when it comes to howling.

If you got a wolf, you would need to look for a vet that would treat wolves/wolf dogs, because some refuse to, and in some states, it’s against the law to.  Additionally, the rabies vaccine is not approved for use with wolves, so even a wolf that has been vaccinated is considered at risk for rabies.

Normal dog food is inadequate for adult wolves, as they need 2-5lbs of meat daily(including skin and bones).  Imagine how much that would cost!

Wolves guard their food, and if you try taking it away, they could react violently.

You’d need to check the laws for owning a wolf (or any wild animal) in your state.  Like here in Washington, ‘no person may possess or breed a potentially dangerous animal after July, 2007.  A potentially dangerous animal include but not limited to: large cats, wolves, bears, hyenas, non-human primates, elephants, alligators, crocodiles, water monitors, crocodile monitors; and various species of venomous snakes.’  And I agree with this fully.

Due to their talent at observational learning, wolves can quickly learn how to get out of confinement, and need to constantly be reminded that they aren’t the leader of their owner, which makes raising wolves difficult for people who raise their animals in an even, rather than subordinate, environment.

Abandoned or escaped captive wolves can be more destructive and pose a greater danger to humans and livestock than wild wolves, seeing as their habituation to humans causes them to lose their natural shyness.

Oh, and wolves don’t make good watchdogs.

The reason why people put wolf/wolf hybrids in pounds is because they usually jump in, thinking, “Hey, I want a wolf, because it would be really cool and I think they’re pretty!’, or, “If I get a wolf dog, then I‘ll be helping the wolves in the wild!”  They don’t do any research or anything.  It’s ignorance, really.  And then they buy a wolf pup, thinking it’s the cutest thing, then it grows up, and it’s too much of a handful.  So they put it in a pound.  And really, the root of the problem is people thinking that taking a wolf out of the wild and trying to turn it into a dog is a good idea.  You can’t think from your emotions if you want a pet wolf.  And you wouldn’t buy a tiger cub thinking it’ll grow up to be just like a domesticated cat, so why think that about a wolf?

If you want a pet wolf, you should, instead of taking something out of the wild, look at the
Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, or huskies or shepherds.

Please, instead of continuing the encouragement of taking wolves out of the wild by adopting one, rescue a dog from a shelter.

And also, why would you want to take a wolf out of the wild?  You’re just robbing it of a natural life and putting it into an environment it’s not used to and wasn’t bred for.

 

I think regulated wolf hunting(whether for food, fur, or population control) in places where the population is stable is absolutely fine, especially since wolves can overpopulate and become a nuisance, like coyotes.

Regulated wolf hunting shouldn’t be any different than regulated elk hunting(or deer, bear, cougar, etc.)

And elk and deer are really very tasty, have you ever tried either?  I’d be sad if all the elk and deer where I live died out.  I mean, not like they will, but…

And who are you calling stupid humans?  You’re acting as if you’re looking down as a superior species upon an inferior species.  You’re a human, too.

My dad hunts deer and elk.  As I said above, deer and elk are quite yummy, especially in stroganoff, so why should-

Wait, there aren’t any wolves where I live, so why am I still-

Anyway.

If people live in an area with stable populations of deer, wolves, elk, etc., I think they should be allowed to hunt them.  When it’s hunting season, anyway.  And I don't support hunting just for the thrill.  I hadn't really thought what 'sport hunting' really is, and I just can't see how people can shoot things just to see it go down.  The thought of it creeps me out, really.

 

If anyone would like to say anything(and I mean anything), please do so after you’ve calmed down and thought about what you’re going to say.  I will only reply to intelligent posts that are looking for a calm debate and not a heated argument.  Or you can Rmail me and we can have a discussion there.

 

Gray wolf wikipedia, you might learn something.

Interesting history of wolf hunting.

Annoyingly biased, but overall interesting read about reintroducing wolves. (don’t read unless you have an open mind and can read it from an unbiased standpoint)

Wolf attacks on humans.

An very good read about wolves/wolf dogs. (I particularly like question 16)




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innagong

5:43pm Feb 11 2011

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White, I love you.



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zozane008

8:49pm Feb 11 2011

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Posts: 17,364

Well I don't.

One, two wrongs don't make a right. If someone I care about died in a wolf accudent (which is very, very unlikely to happen) I wouldn't want to kill it. I would figure something out. Killing is just plain wrong.

Two, I am against hunting for sport. I think its fine to hunt wolves for self-protection, livestock, ect. But I am against hunting them for sport is wrong. yes, to regulate the number of them, but hunting season? Really?

Three, this club was made for wolf-lovers and to save the wolves. Now about how we must hunt them to regulate they're number and so on. ;c </3

This is for wolf-luff.




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ashdog554

11:48pm Feb 11 2011

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Posts: 12,384

Nobody here, (To my knowledge,) Said that wolves were defenseless, White. And wolves cannot 'Keep moving' Because sooner or later, guess what, the travel becomes too long, and the wolves starve, die from dehydration, or something. Forests are not endless. There are other packs, Climate (Droughts, cold... Etc.), grizzlies, coyotes, and disease that wolves could very well be killed by/ have to compete with for food.

Wolves can't just magic their food to them.

NEXT. If wolves could find a elk or somthing, they would choose it over humans.  The only danger of wolves humans really have is from lone wolves, which tend to be more opprutunistic then the packs.

Lone wolves also tend to  be the ones eating livestock. (That isn't to say there aren't packs who do, however.)

There's a difference between sport-killing and hunting for food, self-defense, number regulation... etc.

Though you are pretty dead on in the whole wolf-training thingy.

I understand where you're coming from White, there are cases where wolves need to be killed. But if it's just for kicks...

 

@Inna:  You're right too. Hunters are their own people, and it's unlikely this'll have much effect. But we've gotta try, right? Better to try and fail than to not try at all...




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fawn

12:41am Feb 12 2011

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Posts: 4,355

White, many, many, MANY, things I must dis-agree about.

BUT Zozozane and ashy covered it so...

Also, if you would like to speak to anyone about this, use Rmail.

You are banned from this thread, and if I see your username I will report you.




zozane008

10:42am Feb 12 2011

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Posts: 17,364

I read this on another site; (sorry for not exact words) It said something about fixing wolf wolves and killing wolf pups (by gas.sing) to control its numbers. </3

Zozo is sad.




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ashdog554

4:49pm Feb 12 2011

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Posts: 12,384

Fixing wolf wolves? xDD

The gas.sing wolf pup thing is depressing. O.O D;




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Trefoilfairy

11:28am Mar 5 2011

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Posts: 27

wolves are lierally my life!

I have  a whole money box set aside so I can save up to protect these amzing animals!

If you are interested in adopting or helping these animals visit

www.ukwct.org

or google uk wolf conservation trust! thans for reading !




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fawn

1:21pm Mar 5 2011

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Trefoil: PLEASE stop posting on threads that already died.

IT'S FLIPPIN' ANNOYING!




fawn

1:45pm Mar 31 2011

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REVIVED!




zozane008

6:00pm Mar 31 2011

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Posts: 17,364
Revival~



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ashdog554

8:30pm Mar 31 2011

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Posts: 12,384
Yay. IT IS ALLLIIIVE. 8D



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Foxee

12:56pm Jul 12 2011

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Posts: 405
I'll join, I live in a whole town that everyone basically owns more then 3 guns in every house and all of them hunt elk, so no one likes wolves. But o love wolves! I hate hunting! but if you need food then i accept those who hunt for food. I basically think killing a wolf is like shooting a dog, its distugsting, although my town does shoot dogs since we can't afford to uthenize them



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zozane008

6:36am Jul 13 2011

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Posts: 17,364
Where you live sounds sick....



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ashdog554

1:01am Jul 14 2011

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Yes, I agree with teh Zozo.  That is sick. Who would shoot a dog? D; Even if they can't afford to uthenize them. That is.... just wrong.



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